Good afternoon 大家午安 I am thankful for the opportunity to share with you 我很感謝我有這樣子的機會來和你們分享 Church music from the biblical perspective 從聖經的角度來看教會的音樂 I am not familiar with the struggle or the context condition in Taipei 我不太知道台北對音樂的掙扎是什麼 You might want to help me by giving some questions So that I can direct the material the stuff 你們可以幫助我的話 就是待會可以問我一些問題 那我就可以知道怎麼樣回答你們 So I give the title music and worship 現在要講的是音樂和敬拜 Because we are going to talk about the church music So the context is in worship 因為我們要講的是教會的音樂 First we want to discuss Briefly the theology of worship according to the bible 我們要稍微提一下 聖經所教導我們關於音樂敬拜的神學 Some theology foundation for worship and music 這個是關於敬拜和音樂的一些神學基礎 The first important point is that worship I mean according to the Reformed theological tradition should be response to God's initiative 關於歸正宗的一些傳統 所謂的敬拜應該是對上帝回應 This concept makes a huge difference with the concept that worship that starts from below 這個是讓我們從下到上的敬拜 What is the difference between worship as a response and a worship that is coming from below 一個對上帝回應的敬拜 和一個從下而上的敬拜 這兩者中間到底有什麼不同? When we say worship as a response meaning that you have to recieve something first from God 如果我們說敬拜是一個回應的話 就代表說你必須先從上帝娜裡先得著什麼 Now I think this is always the use difference between pagan worship and the true biblical Christian worship 這個我相信是與所謂的外邦性的敬拜 和一個真實的信徒的敬拜不同的地方 And the Christian concept of worship You don't try to move God from below 在一個基督教的觀念裡頭 你並不會將上帝擺在 從下而上, 你把上帝擺在比較低的地方 On the contrast, it is God's grace that moves you to worship God 但是相反的, 卻是上帝的恩典 把你帶到上帝的面前 The same principle should apply also when we contemplate while we meditate about the church music 當然在我們去思考 關於教會的音樂是什麼的時候 我們也可以看出這其中的不同 When we prise God, we thank God It depends a lot on how is our understanding about God How is our understanding about the Bible and so on Because it is always God who initiate 當我們讚美上帝, 感謝上帝的時候 當然也是對於我們對上帝的了解 還有對聖經的了解 因為這個是上帝先告訴我們祂是誰 我們才可以回應 The Apostle Paul, for instance let us to the Colossians 保羅在他寫給歌羅西教會的書信當中 He said that the Word of God may dwell richly in you So that we can praise God I am shorten the verse 他說: 願上帝的道 可以豐豐富富的存在你們心裡 所以你們可以敬拜祂 Again, our worship, our thankfulness depends so much on the richness of the Word of God that dwell in our lives 我們的敬拜, 我們的感謝真的是在 上帝的道有多麼的豐富在我們心中 我們才可以呈現出來 The second point 第二點 It is always that biblical Reformed concept of worship Namely we should give the best to God The best we can give that we can offer to God 照著聖經的觀點來敬拜上帝的 一條很重要的訊息就是 我們要將我們最好的呈現給上帝 We can compare with the case Abel and Cain 我們可以用該隱和亞伯的作為代表 Cain's offering was rejected and Abel's offering excepted by God 該隱所獻的祭物被上帝給拒絕了 亞伯的卻被接納了 When we read the account of Genesis It's not really clear the reason why God rejected Cain and excepted Abel's offering 我們光是看創世紀的話我們比較難看出 為什麼上帝不要該隱的祭卻是接受亞伯的祭 The Genisis' account combines with the episode to the Hebrews We know the reason 但是當我們把創世紀和希伯來書 做為比較的時候 我們就曉得了 Namely that Abel gives a better offering to God 因為亞伯其實給了一個更美的祭 He gives the best lamb to God 他給了上帝最好的羊羔 Whereas we don't read such statement from Cain's offering It's not the best The fruit 但是當我們看到該隱將他的祭獻上的時候 卻不是最好的農作物 So the same principle applys again also to church music We should give the best The best music that we can give to God 同樣的一個觀念是在教會的音樂當中 也是可以去呈現出來的 我們應當把最好的音樂獻給上帝 Because God also gives the best to us 因為上帝也把祂最好的給我們了 This naturally, it is expected that we also shoud give the best to God 那很自然, 很理所應當的 我們要將我們的最好獻給上帝 Now regarding church music there are many evangelical churches that has this kind of opinion 很多的福音派教會也是有同樣的觀點 They always think about the style about the song of music It's actually quite flexible 大部分福音派的教會是 認為教會的音樂是可以有彈性的 Namely they are still saying that we can use all kind of music 他們是說, 我們可以用所有不同的音樂 也就是說不認為說一定要把最好的呈現給上帝 What is important is our motivation 但更重要的是我們的動機 Our motivation that is everything that goes 我們的動機是什麼是最重要的 But actually everything about motivation 你去想想關於動機這個問題的話 It belongs also to motivation that we contemplate We check whether what we give to God Is it proper or not That is also belongs to motivation 如果是要講動機 我們也要講到說我們有沒有在思考 什麼才是最好, 我們可以呈現給上帝 這也是動機的一部分 So we cannot say OK, I give all kinds of music to God And my motivation is sincere I want to worship God That's certainly not enough 所以你不能夠講說 我可以把任何的音樂都呈現給上帝 因為我的動機是純正的 這其實是不足夠的 Of course our portion is difference 當然我們的信心這一塊是與眾不同的 Every church's portion is also differeance 每一個教會在去呈現這樣子的觀念 的時候也是不同的 And of course also that God demands what he gives to us Not that what he didn't give to us 而且上帝所要的是祂已經給我們的 並不是祂所沒有給我們的 But from our side we should give the best to the Lord 但是從我們的角度來說 我們應當把我們所有的最好的給上帝 The best music that we offer to God 我們能夠找到最好的音樂 我們就把祂呈現給上帝 I'm not doing misunderstanding This is not about elite culture 不要誤會, 這並不是在說我們 要成為高尚大的這樣一個社會文化 Because we give the best to God what we recieve from God also 我們可以把最好的給上帝 是因為我們已經從上帝那裡得到最好的了 Third principle about worship 第三個關於敬拜的點 Namely the relation between worship and the chief end of human beings 是人生最主要存在的目的和敬拜的關係是什麼 If I may cite the famous important question of the Westminster Shorter or Large Catechism 在西敏的大小要裡問答當中都說到 The chief end of human namely is to glorify and to enjoy God 人活著最主要的終點目的就是要榮耀上帝 並且去享受祂直到永遠 These two things to enjoy and to glorify God 去榮耀祂並且去享受祂這兩件事情 Precisely happen in worship 其實就在敬拜當中很準確地被表達出來了 Worship in the narrow sense on Sunday and worship in the broader sense 不管是在星期天的敬拜 或者是在日常生活中的敬拜 Because in our everyday we also glorify and enjoy God 因為我們每日都去 榮耀並且去享受上帝 If we read the book of Exodus 如果我們讀出埃及記 We know that the book of Exodus kind of typology to Christ, to New Testament 在出埃及記當中所發生的事情 都是一個新約還有主耶穌基督要來的影子 I'm thinking of the inside bondage by Egyptian 包括以色列人在埃及地 被作為奴隸這樣一件事情 Is a typology to human's bondage to sin 就好像是人被罪所挾制的這樣一個縮影 And Moses is typology to Christ 而摩西就好像是預表著耶穌基督 Because he leads Israelites out of Egypt 因為是他把以色列人從埃及地帶出來 Just like Jesus Christ who leads us out of sins 就好像是耶穌基督 把我們從罪惡當中拯救出來一樣 I hope this comparison is convincing 我希望這樣子的一個比較 是讓你們可以了解的 If we continue 如果你繼續下去 After they are called out from Egypt 當他們從埃及被召出來之後 The book of Exodus says So that they may worship God Yahweh in the wilderness 在聖經出埃及記裡頭說 他們之所以被拯救出來是為了要他們可以 在曠野中敬拜我或是敬拜耶和華 So we are called out from sin so that we may worship God 我們從罪惡當中被召出來 所以我們可以敬拜上帝 Our freedom given by God has this Telos, this goal 我們從上帝那裡所得來的自由 是有這樣子一個目的, 這樣一個Telos We are not liberated from sin to do nothing 我們並不是從罪惡當中被拯救出來之後 就不做什麼了 We are liberated from sin to worship God even also in the wilderness 我們從罪中被釋放得著自由 是為了要使我們可以敬拜上帝 So this is again the principle of worship as a chief end of human 這個就是敬拜的一個最重要的目的 是人活著的一個主要目的 Fourth point 第四個 The role of music in worship 在敬拜當中音樂的角色是什麼呢 Now we know that music is very important in the church 我們知道音樂在教會當中是非常重要的 Of course we still can compare with the other fine arts 我們曉得音樂也可以和其它的 各種不同的藝術來做一個比較 The church building itself is of course an architeture 在教會的建築物也算是一個藝術的表現 And in many Roman Catholic Churches or Eastern Orthodox Churches You find a lot of pictures, icons paintings and so on 羅馬天主教跟東正教當中你都可以找到 有很多的畫像還有很多的這些馬賽克等等 In Protestant Churches are the few 在新教, 也就是抗羅宗當中 也是有這樣子的一個觀點 I think every denomonations will agree that the role of music is the most dominant of other fine arts in worship and in Christian church 但我想不管是哪一個教派都可以同意 在教會的敬拜當中音樂是佔一個最重要的角色 You can even study the history of the church from the perspective of the history of music in worship 你甚至可以研究教會歷史的時候 從研究教會的音樂歷史著手 The role of music again is very important in the church in worship 所以音樂的這個角色 在教會當中是非常重要的 Because it has different dimension 因為它有不同的面向 Now if you look at the sculptures or paintings or architechtures 如果可以看它的雕刻 或者是畫畫或者是建築 They are either in two dimensions or in three dimensions 他們可能就是二重的或者是三重的面向 2D或是3D的 If we're philosophizing about music 但是你如果用哲學的角度去思考音樂的話 Music is actually not the score We know the score is the notation that's not the music That is only a sign 我們曉得音樂並不是 只是寫在紙上的這些音符 這些東西都只不過是記號而已 When we hear music 當我們聽到音樂的時候 Of course music itself is also a physical phenomenon 當然音樂也是一個物理性的現象 But you certainly need time 但你的確是需要時間 把時間花在音樂上面 It's not just about space but also time 不光只是需要空間而已, 你需要時間 And there are many beautiful things about music I mean maybe we cannot discuss everything here 在音樂當中有許多很美妙的事情 但我們沒有辦法一一介紹 But perhaps I might give you a let's say just one example 我只能給你一個例子 On the role of music, we used to think spacially in theology 我們思考神學的時候 常常是用空間式的方式去思考的 We have difficulty to understand the doctrine of Trinity, for instance 比如說我們去了解關於 三一神論這件事情的時候 我們光是用空間性的思考 去思考三一論, 就很難去了解 How can one become at a same time three and one It is not compatible one and three either one or three, three or one 用這樣的方式去思考的話, 我們就會說 怎麼可能有一個人在同一時間 又是三又是一呢 這個很難去了解三一的 The background behind is that because we think not the dramatically or spacially 我們之所以會這樣想是因為 我們把這樣子一個神學思考 框架在空間性質裡頭 Let's say if you draw a circle like this 比如說你去比喻上帝的時候 你劃一個圓圈 We have difficulty when we want to explain the first person Assumed who divine nature and second person assumed who divine nature and third person assumed 我們很難去想像第一個位格的上帝 是擁有所有的神性在祂裡頭 第二個位格也是擁有所有的神性 第三個位格也是擁有所有的神性 It becomes blur There is no diffirence You just see one circle, right? 但對我們來講這個還是很模糊的 因為它還是一個圓圈 You can put the color I mean red, yellow and so on But it won't have much also 但你可能又可以說, 那我來畫紅色 黃色、綠色在它身上好了 可是還是沒有辦法幫助你去了解這件事 If you devide the ciecle into three spaces And becomes erroneous teaching also 如果你又把這個圓圈分成三個等分的話 卻又成了一個錯誤的教訓 So that's why the erroneous teaching of Trinity Either use stress overemphasize on the oneness Or you overemphasize on the threeness 所以通常對三一神論的錯誤的教訓 都是在於你太注重於上帝的單一 或者是太注重於上帝的三位格神姓 There is certain limitation in the spacial thinking 所以在用這樣子的神學性思考 就會給我們一個限制 Because God is spirit And God is not limited by space 因為上帝是靈 祂並不是被空間所限制住的 But if you use music, for instance, to explain, is much more understandable 但是如果我們用音樂去理解這件事情的話 就變得比較容易讓人去明白了 Now I can give you just one simple example This is very very simple example 我給你一個非常非常簡單的例子 I just play one note here 我現在彈了一個音符 You know that this one note Taking the whole space of this room 它已經把整個所有的空間都佔據住了 And if I add one more note 我又再加一個音符進去 You can hear clearly which one is the first, which one is the second, right? 你就知道哪一個是第一個 哪一個是第二個 And you cannot say that the two notes are in competition It's not in competition at all 你並不會說這兩音符或這兩個聲音 正在互相比較 So if I put another note This is three notes 我現在把三個音符都放在一起 It's very distinct You can here the C, the E and the G 你現在可以同一時間聽到C, E跟G And C does not become softer or should give space to the other two notes 所以C並沒有變得更弱 或它需要分出一點空間給另外E跟G Now I don't want to say that Trinity is called C majior That's not what I want to say 我並不是說三一的上帝就是像這樣子 (C大調和弦) It's a simple illustration 這只是一個很簡單的例子的一個比喻而已 But you know that illustration in music Actually serves better than the spacial illustration 但是用音樂來去做比喻的話 比用空間性的方式去做比喻更好 Because in space, there is always this kind of competition 因為在空間裡頭總是會 有一個比較或互相的衝突 Like here, if I want to share this Bible buddy with Michael I have really to share the space 像我現在要在這裡跟大家分享的話 跟Michael一起分享給大家 我就要留一個空間給他 50%, 50% 所以就要五十, 五十了 Or perhaps in this case, 60% and 40% 但也可能照他的例子的話就是60, 40 But in music it's not necessary at all 但音樂就不需要這樣 One note should not give space to the other notes There is no need to give space 一個音符所發出的聲音 並不需要給另外兩個音符任何空間 Every note can sound in perfect freedom 每一個音符所發出的聲音 都擁有它自由的音量 So we can say that the note C taking the whole space of this room as well as the note E and the note G 所以我們可以講C, E還有G 都是很完美的把這整個空間都包含住了 You can apply also to the classical debate between God's sovereignty and heman freedom 我們甚至可以在一個很經典的, 關於 上帝的主權和人的自由當中來解釋這件事情 If you cannot go out from the spacial thinking You always see this kind of contradiction 如果我們不能夠把我們剛才這種 空間性的觀念給跳脫出來的話 我們總是會看見這樣一個衝突在裡頭 So again, a circle you say that if God is sovereign If God is totally sovereign then I have no frrdom at all 所以你看如果在空間裡頭的話 如果上帝是完全的掌握所有的主權 那我在這裡頭就沒有任何的自由 And if human has really true freedom then God should not be sovereign 如果人真的是有他所謂完全的自由的話 那上帝就沒有祂所謂完全的主權了 So always competing in space 所以在空間當中兩個就一直互相比較 Or maybe we should define Ok, I give God's sovereignty 50% But I have 50% human freedom 或者是我應該要這樣講 上帝有50%的主權, 我也有50%的自由 But in the Reformed evangelical theology We belive that God is 100% sovereign 但在歸正神學當中 我們曉得上帝是100%有主權的 And we human being are 100% responsible 我們人類也是100%的有責任 God's sovereignty does not contract to human freedom or human free will 上帝的主權完全沒有跟人的責任相衝突 Again, we may ask How is that possible 我們又要問, 這怎麼可能呢 Just play piano It's possible 當你在彈鋼琴的時候 你就發現這是有可能的 If you use music as illustration it's much more simple to understand 你用音樂來做這樣的比喻就簡單多了 But if you are trapped in this spacial conception It's very hard to describe 如果你是用這種空間性的思維 去想這件事情的話 就很難去解釋它 There are many things to be said about the important role 還有很多地方我們可以講到 音樂在敬拜當中的角色是有多重要 The Wittenberg reformer Martin Luther, for instance 像在威登堡的馬丁路德他所講的 (Martin Luther, 1483–1546) He said a very famous sentence He said After theology or after the Word of God music is the next I mean after the Word of God is the second thing 馬丁路德他說過 除了上帝的道之外 第二重要的就是音樂了 So the first, the best gift from God to human is the Word of God 所以上帝給人最大最好的禮物就是祂的道 And according to Martin Luther 照著馬丁路德所講的 The second best gift is music 第二好的恩賜、恩典上帝所賜給我們的 其實就是音樂 We might want to ask why 我們可能要問為什麼 Because Luther's understanding of the Word 因為路德對道的了解 It's not only word in written form but especially the sounding word 並不是只是所以寫出來的這個道 更重要的是那一個可以發出聲音的道 That's why the Lutheran tradition emphasize very much on preaching 所以在路德宗的傳統當中 他們非常注重講台的訊息 Because in preaching the Word of God made to sound 因為在講道當中上帝的道被聽見了 And precisely to music 在音樂當中更準確地來說 You can make the Word of God sounding 你也可以將上帝的道發出聲音 So music becomes here like a vehicle 所以音樂變成是一個承載物 Where is the content of course is the Word of God 所承載的就是上帝的道 But through music the Word of God becomes sounding 而在音樂當中上帝的道可以被聽見 I want to move to the fifth point 我們要到第五個 Now the role of the affection 在人的情感當中的角色是什麼 I don't know whether you are coming from the affectional church or from the rational, logical church 我不曉得大家是從比較富有情感的教會 或是比較富有理性邏輯的教會當中出來的 But from the perspective of the Bible From the perspective of Reformed theology These are the unfortunate classification actually 但是從聖經的角度 還有從歸正神學的角度來看這件事的話 把這兩種教會分開來其實是一個蠻悲慘的事情 Viewer with the influence of Stoic philosophy 從斯多亞派或是從柏拉圖派的思想當中 Especially in the Stoic philosophy they teach, they taught 特別是在斯多亞派的哲學理他們教導 that the more you are mature the more you are spiritual 你如果越成熟或是越有靈性 the more your feeling, the more your affection is not affected 你的情感就越來越淡化了 So you become cool 你就會變得很酷 就沒有什麼情感 I think it's cold or cool 我想很酷這是一個 Sometimes it's hard to differentiate between cool and cold 有時候很酷跟很冷淡 這兩者很難被分別出來 The Stoic philosophy definitely is not biblical teaching 當然斯多亞派的哲學絕對不是聖經的教導 Because God created us not only with understanding with mind but also with affection 因為上帝創造我們的時候, 並不只是 讓我們成為一個有理性可以明白事理的人 更是讓我們也成為一個有情感的人 I want to use the word affection here other than feeling, or emotion 我用情感多過於用感情或是感性(感覺) This is not debate about vocabulary The more important is concept actually I want to explain after this 我用情感是因為這東西並不是在乎於感覺 If you say feeling or emotion It's not wrong It's not sinful, of course 用感覺或是用感情當然是沒有問題 It's rather on the superficial level 但是我不只是在一個表面上的講法 表面的層面 If you have favour, you'll enjoy ice cream or your favorite food 就好像你在吃冰淇淋的時候你感覺很高興 That you feel good 你感覺很好 As the food is somehow wrong then you feel not good 如果這食物有任何不對勁的話 你就感覺不好 Even the food was wrong you will not get depressed by one month The food is not good you'll not get depressed 一個食物就算不好吃 你也不會因此而一個月都感到很憂慮 Because it's not in the level of affection It's in the level of emotion 因為這並不只是在一個感性 或是情感的方面 這個只是在人的表面的感情而已 If you have a boyfriend or girlfriend 你如果有一個男朋友/女朋友 There are so many years and then 你交往了很久 She or he leaves you then that's painful It's in the affection ground 如果說這樣的一個情感 男女朋友在一起交往很久 這男的或女的離開了對方 這種痛苦就是在我們現在要講的 情感的層面 The broken heart is in the level of affection not in the level of emotion 我們在講情感的時候是講到關於 心碎這樣子的層面 並不只是在一個感覺而已 If you lose your watch 你如果把你手錶掉了 I don't know it's in the level of emotion or affection Perhaps depends on how much the price of the watch 可能你手錶掉了, 我也不曉得這個 要講在感覺層面還是這種很深的情感層面 但可能要看你的手錶多少錢 If it's very very expensive, then certainly the level of affection 如果很貴很貴的話 可能就是在很深的情感層面 So what I want to say is that church music should be discussed not just emotion 我現在要講的是說 關於教會音樂的敬拜 其實是已經到了深層的情感的部分了 並不只是一個感覺而已 Again, not that emotion itself is wrong 我們並不是在講說感覺的這種感情是錯的 Thanks God that not everything is in the level of affection We might get crazy if everything is 感謝主, 不是所有事情都是在那種 很深的情感方面, 不然你會瘋掉的 If you want to discuss worship it should be in the level of affection Not only in the level of emotion 但我們要講到敬拜, 就是要到這種深層 的情感方面, 並不只是在一個表面的感覺 Now we should be critical when our church just wants to stress the worship only in the emotional affection instead of affectional affection 我們的確要對教會只願意把音樂 放在一個表面感情的敬拜很小心 Should be in the deeper level not only the shallow 敬拜應該是放在更深的情感方面 如果教會只想要把它放在表面的感覺的話 我們應該要為這件事情擔憂小心 Or we're not really interested in church music that only boost the emotional level 我們也不應當讓教會或是認為教會的 音樂只是把人的感覺給提升起來而已 Sometimes you can just check wheather you are in the affectional or emotional level It's a very simple test 你要去試試看你的敬拜是在表面的感覺 還是在深層的情感方面的話 這個測驗其實很簡單 In worship you can have this kind of high feeling towards God 你在敬拜當中你可以有一個 很高昂的, 激動的這種表現 You feel yourself so so near to God 那個時候你感覺你跟上帝好親近 But only few minutes after worship and you left the church building 在幾分鐘的敬拜之後 你從教會的建築物離開了 There's kind of mood spin You become totally different person 在你離開的當下 你的情感突然就轉變成為另一種模式 你變成另外一個人 You get easily angry just because your car cannot go out properly and so on 你就因為你的車子很難從停車位出來 感到非常憤怒, 你很容易生氣 You know that your worship is just in the emotional level because this mood swing is too fast 那你就知道你剛才這樣子的敬拜 只不過是在一個表面情感而已 表面的感覺而已 We know in the level of affection It does not function that way 我們知道很深的情感方面的話 敬拜是並不會讓你變成像剛才所形容的狀況 My thesis is that worship should be in the affectional level, not emotional level 我們現在講的就是說 敬拜應該是在情感的深層層面的 Also important is understanding 關於理解的這方面也是很重要的 So again, we have affection we have understanding 我們有深層的情感 我們也有所謂的理解 Both are faithful to the Reformed evangelical tradition actually 那這個當然是對歸正福音的傳統是一致的 In the Reformed Church tradition We tend to emphasize the importance of doctrinal understanding 在歸正的傳統當中 我們強調對教義理解的重要性 John Calvin(1509- 1564) once said that We doubt understanding where there is no understanding there will be no edification 約翰加爾文也講說 在一個沒有理解力的地方 或是對教義沒有理解的地方 也絕對不會有人被建造 You cannot grow spritually only in the aspect of your affection even though it's affection, not emotion 你絕對不可能只是在靈性的成長上 是停留在深層的感情方面 就算這是深層的感情而不是一個表面的感覺 But you have to grow in your understanding also Theological understanding Biblical understanding 你一定要在你的神學理解上面也一起成長 對聖經的理解 Let's read 1 Corinthians 我們來讀哥林多前書 第十四章 1 Corinthians 14:15 十四章15節 I will read to you and you will listen to Michael's translation What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit but I will pray with my mind also I will sing praise with my spirit but I will sing with my mind also 這卻怎麼樣呢？ 我要用靈禱告，也要用悟性禱告 我要用靈歌唱，也要用悟性歌唱 So again, you see here with sprit understanding Not only with spirit without understanding but also not only with understanding without sprit 我們現在看到這裡有靈也有悟性 也不是說只有悟性沒有靈 有靈也有悟性 This is biblical princeple Also emphasize by the Refoemer like John Calvin 這個所謂歸正的傳統 也是被約翰加爾文所強調的 If you apply also to church music 如果我們把這樣一個原則 也放在教會的音樂上面 Then our church music should contain also this deep understanding 這樣子我們的教會音樂也應當與 這樣一個深層理解的悟性相通 I don't want to make a general statement here I mean I don't do stereotyping but there's a certain reason with this statement 我並不只是想要給一個籠統的解釋 或是給人一個錯誤的觀念 If you compare, there is too little contemporary music I'm not against contemporary music actually But if you compare with the older hymns there are just too many contemporary music that doesn't have deep understanding 我其實並沒有反對現代音樂 但是你把現代音樂 跟古代的聖詩做比較的話 你會發現古代的聖詩當中 有非常多深層對聖經, 對上帝的理解 So if you want to use contemporary worship music 所以你如果想要用 現代的詩歌來讚美上帝的話 You should consider the aspect of understanding because it's according to biblical principle 但你也應該要去想一下 你在悟性方面有多少成分在裡頭 因為這是聖經裡頭所寫的 According to biblical principle The Apostle Paul said that we should praise God, we should sing not only with our spirit but also with our understanding 所以照著使徒保羅所講的 我們去敬拜的時候 我們不當只是用靈來敬拜 我們也要用我們的悟性 I'm sure you're familiar with the hymn, Great is Thy faithfulness Are you familiar? 我們都知道「你信實何廣大」這首詩歌吧 So if I analyse the first stanza second stanza, third stanza 如果我們去看第一、第二、第三節 的這個詩歌 The first stanza read Great is Thy faithfulness O God my Father There is no shadow of turning with Thee Thou changest not Thy compassions, they fail not 它講到說: 祢的信實廣大 我父我上帝 在祢沒有轉動的影兒 So the first stanza basically praise God for his attributes 首先在第一節講到說 祢的信實廣大, 祢不改變 這個是在講到上帝的本性 You know that the topic is very clear And the second one 第二個 Summer and winter springtime and harvest time Moon and stars in their courses above, 春夏秋冬還有星辰的移動 Join with all nature in manifold witness To Thy great faithfulness 在整個自然當中 都是照著祢的信實而運轉的 So you know that here the topic is about the theology of creation 你就知道說這一個主題 是在講到祂的創造 The third stanza Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide These are about Soteriology and Christology 第三節講到說 對罪的赦免還有 所給我們的平安和這一切的喜樂 是在講到救恩論跟基督論 So again the flow is very clear First about the divine attributes And then about the theology of creation And the last stanza is about the gosple, the forgiveness of sin 所以我們看它這樣子 一個神學的流程就很清楚 先講到上帝的本性 然後再來講到祂的創造 再來就講到福音, 祂對罪的赦免 And this is the hymn reader refrain with the same text I mean the refrain, Great is Thy faithfulness With the same text 所以這三節的重複唱的那一節(副歌) 都是在講到祂的信實何等廣大 If I analyze the stucture It's very simple It's A-R-B-R-C-R The structure Can you still follow me? The first stanza is A and then refrain And then you have the second one meaning B and R So A-R-B-R-C-R 所以它的架構是A-R-B-R-C-R R就是副歌 So you sing three times R 所以你唱了三次的副歌 這個refrain重複唱 It's not always the same R Because you have new stanza new perspective and so on It's going deeper and deeper and deeper 雖然你唱了三次同樣的副歌 可是這三次唱出來都不一樣 因為你有三個不同的ABC 然後使你每一次唱這個R 這個副歌的時候 意義就更深更深更深了 It's always the same text but with the different perspective With the deeper perspective 它雖然是同一組文字 但卻是給你更深更深更深的了解 Again, I don't want to make stereotyping 我並沒有想要給人貼標籤 But it's just too many contemporary music that does not have this kind of flow of development 太多的現代詩歌並沒有 這樣一個神學的流程在裡頭 What you have is only the refrain without reason actually 有時候就只有副歌 甚至連理性都沒有了 And you don't really know why you are praisinf God There is no reasons No reason statement 很多時候你也不知道 你為什麼要這樣讚美上帝 它沒有任何理由讓你去這樣想 Suddenly "Jesus love me, God is so good" "I belong to you, you belong to me" and so on 就是只有耶穌愛我, 我也愛祢 然後上帝是我的, 我也是祢的 It is not comparable with the old hymns 跟古代的這些詩歌比起來是沒有辦法比的 Again, I don't want to be unfair to contemporary music but you need to be critical 當然我並不是要對現代詩歌有很不公平的回應 可是你的確是需要去好好思想 I give you one illustration 我給你們最後一個 Once there's an old lady as a grandmother who always attends the church regularly every week 曾經有個老奶奶每個禮拜都參加教會 And actually her hearing has already weakened 當然你知道她的聽力已經變得比較弱了 She had a naughty granddaughter 她有一個很調皮的孫女 And this granddaughter finally ask her 這個孫女終於問了她一個問題 Hey, grandma if I look at your condition 奶奶, 我如果看你現在的狀況 I'm not sure wheather you can understand the sermon 我都不確定你能不能了解講道 Because your hearing is just bad, right? So how can you understand the sermon? 因為你的耳朵現在都不好了 你怎麼可以明白講道呢 And then the smart grandma answered this way 那個很聰明的奶奶就回答了 Ok, do you see what this is? 你看見這個是什麼嗎? The granddaughter said that's a basket 她說: 這是一個籃子 Now I pour out water on it 我現在把水一直放進這籃子裡 Do you see it's cleaner now? 然後現在更乾淨了嗎? The granddaughter said, yes of course it's cleaner. You pour on water 孫女說 當然, 你一直把水放進去就乾淨了 Where is the water now? 她說: 現在水呢? It just strains through 已經都漏下去了 That's what happens with me 她說對我來講就是這樣 I go everytime Sunday to church 我星期天到教會裡頭 I become cleaner 我更乾淨了 But there's nothing left inside me 但在我裡頭什麼東西都留不住 都已經漏掉了 like the basket 就好像這個籃子一樣 I have become cleaner somehow 但我還是更乾淨了 And it's not Reformed understanding 但這當然不是一個歸正的思想 Inside the mythical concpetion of church 這個是對教會有一種神秘主義的觀點 If you are going to church you feel like cleansed and so on But if people ask you what it is I don't know at all It's somehow I'm touched 你到教會來, 就說你已經得著潔淨等等 人家問你為什麼 你說: 我也不曉得, 我就是被觸摸到 They cannot tell you what is his understanding It's lack of understanding 他們沒有辦法告訴你他所理解的是什麼 因為這沒有任何東西可以去理解 We don't want this kind of worship happen to our church 我們並不希望這樣的敬拜在我們的教會當中 Because worship is not like tuning our affection to God's affection 因為所謂的敬拜並不是把我們情感的頻道 調的跟上帝一樣而已 It belongs to Christian concept of worship of course But that's not enough That's not sufficient 當然這也可以是基督徒敬拜的一個層面 可是不足夠 So again, should be affection and understanding 一定要有深層的情感 也必須要有足夠的悟性理解力 According to biblical 是照著聖經所教導我們的 Last point of this 在這個地方最後一點要講的 We should compare also the music that we consume in our everydayness 我們也必須要去思考 我們每一天所接收到的音樂 With the church music that we use in worship 甚至包括我們在教會裡敬拜所用的音樂 Otherwise I mean if we don't compare. If we're not contemplating about this principle 如果我們沒有在這樣的原則 去思考, 去比較的話 There will occur a certain dualism in our life 我們的人生就會變得兩極化了 So you consume, for instance a totally different style of music from Monday to Saturday And suddenly on Sunday, you sing a totally different kind of music 你禮拜一到禮拜六所接收 所吞吃的是另一種音樂 突然星期天又換成了另外一種 Why is this not right? 為什麼這樣子的事情不對? Because according to the Bible Worship should be understood in a narrow sense and in broader sense 因為照著聖經來講, 敬拜是可以 從一個廣義跟狹義的方面去了解的 It's not right to live this dualism 我們活在這樣兩極化的 世界當中是不應該的 during your everydayness you always have to listen to hymns 我不是說你每一天都要去聽聖詩 This is a little bit religious freak 這個有一點實在太宗教化了 No, you can listen to instrumental music, non-sacred music 當然你也可以去聽一些非聖詩的音樂 Not in total contrast with the style that we use in our worship 或者跟我們敬拜當中的方式不太一樣的音樂 I will explain this later what I mean by contrast 我到時候會講什麼叫做對照 去對照這樣兩種音樂 我們要去對照 What kind of music? 我們到底要去聽什麼樣的音樂? There are three aspects if we learn I mean the theory of aesthetics of philosophy If you did that three aspects are to be disccused 我們要從三個面向去看美學 Namely, first is content 第一個就是它的內容 Second is structure 再來就是它的架構 And the third one is presentation 再來就是它的表現 Now the content is of course the text itself 當然內容就是它所表達出來的字句 If you talk about church music It's always with text, right? 如果我們要講教會音樂的話 就會有字句在裡頭了, 對不對 The text in this regard should be biblical should teach the right doctrine 當然這個字句必須要合乎聖經 必須要教導正確的教義 This is perhaps also easier to judge, to follow 當然這個東西是比較容易去分辨 看得出來的 The second one, which is more The third one is second easier 第三個也是第二容易去辨別的 Namely about the presentation 也就是它是如何地被表現出來 It refers to the singer and the musician how they present the music 也就是說演唱者或者是在音樂的演奏者 他們是怎麼樣呈現這個音樂的 This is also very important because if the presentation does not go right then you destroy the beauty of the music 音樂的呈現如果是不正確的話 你也會把整個音樂給扭曲了 Solemn music, for instance should be sung and played solem as well 比如說一個很嚴肅的音樂, 就應該要 嚴肅地去把它演奏出來或是唱出來 A song about spirital war should be presented accordingly 如果這個詩歌是在表現屬靈爭戰的話 它的表現就應當要如此 et cetera 如此如此 Now about the structure This is more complicated 講到關於它的架構的話就比較複雜了 Because when we talk about the structure we are dealing with the kind or the sort of music that we use in worship 因為我們講到關於架構的話 就要講到是什麼樣的音樂 There's always this kind of debate of what kind of music should be used in worship 所以在教會當中通常有這樣一個爭論 教會裡應當用什麼樣的音樂來敬拜呢 Can we use Rock music is a classical question 我們可以用搖滾樂嗎? 這個是一個很經典的問題 Can we use Jazz or Rap music 我們可以用饒舌歌嗎? 或是用爵士 Can I use the melody by Led Zeppelin and I change it into the Lord's prayer? 我可以用齊柏林飛船的音樂 然後可以把它的歌詞改成主禱文嗎? ...etc I mean this is very I don't know in the context in Taipei You might want to give me some question 我不曉得在台北大家有沒有這樣的爭論 但是你們可以告訴我 Ok, we go back again to the content a little bit detail 我們回到內容 給它多一點細節 The biblical teaching 聖經所教的 encourage us to accommodate different kind of biblical teaching includes this element should be accommodated in the church 在教會當中的這個 在聖詩裡頭的字句應當要 包括禱告當中應當有的這些內容 包括敬拜還包括感謝、認罪 還有各種不同的層面 Song of adoration, of thanksgiving, of confession convincing of faith, confession of sins Songs of lamentation, songs of supplication of prayer Songs of contemplation, of meditation and songs of encouragement to serve to follow Jesus and evangelise and so on So it's good to have this diversity 就是在一個詩歌的歌詞當中 應當要表現出它的讚美 或者是感謝認罪等等 If it's possible in one worship we should accommodate this richness 可能在一個敬拜裡頭, 我們應當要把 這麼豐富的這種情感都擺在裡頭 For instance, not only adoration and Thanksgiving but also should includes certain lamentation 可能不一定是只有讚美或者是感謝 我們也可以放一些向哀歌 耶利米哀歌的那種哀歌進去 Certain issues in our lives cannot be brought to God only with thanksgiving but perhaps with lamentation 有很多在我們生命中發生的事 可能並不只能用感謝的方式來帶到上帝面前 可能要用一些哀哭的方式 If you think about the Christians persecution by ISIS, for instance How would you sing with thanksgiving 可能我們想到伊斯蘭國對基督教的迫害 你要用什麼樣的方法來感謝上帝呢 I think lamentation is the proper way 可能用哀歌來呈現你的敬拜會更好 Perhaps in other times confession confession of faith, confession of sins 可能有些其它的時候, 你認信或認罪 There are songs that highly celebrate the goodness of God And that's why the mood is 有些詩歌當中它是有很多慶祝性的模式 在裡頭, 慶祝的元素在裡頭 Other songs are more contemplative or more meditative 有一些詩歌是比較讓人可以多去思考的 Again you should present accordingly 你可不可以在把它表現出來的時候 也是用它同樣的內容表現出來呢 Previously you sang the famous hymn by Martin Luther Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott A mighty Fortress is Our God 像剛才我們唱馬丁路德所寫的那首詩歌 The original version is actually much more celebrative than the simplified version that we sang just now 它原本的那一版的音樂 其實是有更多慶祝的成分在裡頭 我們這個是簡化版的 I just play on the piano You want to sing with me? And we sing again this song in the simplified version 我們可以一起唱剛才那首歌嗎 就是馬丁路德的那首 Ok, the fermata(延長記號) is actually only a comma(休止符) I mean according to historical informed prctice It's not really a fermata but it's a comma We know from Bach's organ rules so he always put fermata He actually means only comma especially Baroque and before In the Romantic period, if you has a fermata, It means really fermata but here it's just the comma So let's sing it only with comma 1, 2, 3 Now let me play the original version written by Martin Luther in the Reformation period 我現在要彈的是改教運動當中本來的音符 So what we sang just now is the modern simplified version 這個是我們已經簡化過的版本 我現在要彈的是改教運動的版本 The original version is like this You want to sing with me together 你們要跟我一起唱這首歌嗎? It is difficult but this is the original version 這個是原始版 With a lot of rhythmical liveliness 當中有很多很生動的成分在裡面 Including syncopes and so on syncopes It's a music doing syncope 包括他剛剛講的這些名詞 Syncope That is syncope 這個就是切分音 So again going back to the richness of the diversity In the church music you should include adoration, thanksgiving, confession lamentation and so on 當然在一個敬拜當中 它的豐富可以包括很多 我們所講的讚美, 所謂的哀歌等等 全部加起來 It's close to 7:00 I think 現在已經快七點了 我想給大家一些問題解答的時間 I still have a lot of stuff I think I just stop here 我其實還有很多東西要講 但我覺得在這裡停住好了 Do you want to comment something? 你們有什麼要說的嗎? There's Reformed people They are talking about you shouldn't use instruments You should only use voices What's your comment? 在歸正的不同陣營當中有人說 你不可以用樂器 你只能夠用聲音來敬拜上帝 那你對這件事情的看法是什麼? This practice actually originated from Calvin's theological thought about music 其實這樣的思想是從加爾文對音樂的神學 In my humble opinion it's wrong exegesis 對我來說我認為是一個錯誤的解經 We repected Calvin and we learned a lot from Calvin 我們很尊重加爾文, 我們也從加爾文 學到很多, 但我不認為這是正確的 His theology of music actually accomodate a certain negtive, skeptical attitude from Augustine(354-430) 他對音樂神學的理解 有很多層面是從奧古斯丁那裡傳承下來的 Maybe generally say Augustine has a postive attitude towards music but also negtive attitude towards music 奧古斯丁對音樂有他正面的理解 也有負面的理解 And if you compare Luther and Calvin 如果我們把路德跟加爾文做一個比較的話 Luther inherited more positive attitude 路德從奧古斯丁那裡 領受更多正面的理解、態度 Calvin and especially Zwingli(1484-1531) 加爾文或是慈運理 inherited negtive attitude towards music 特別是慈運理他們對反面的理解是承受更多的 In his biblical exegesis for instance Calvin He did place music as a shadow from the old testament 加爾文的解經是說所謂的音樂 是在舊約所呈現的一個影子而已 If we discuss the law I mean usually this is a classical concept also by the Reformers You divide into three kinds of law Namely the ceremonial law the judicial and the moral law 如果我們在解釋律法的時候 在歸正的神學當中 大部分會是這樣解釋的 你會把它解釋在禮儀 就是典禮上面的 還有一個就是在形式上面的 還有一個就是道德律 Moral law Even Christ already came does not cease 就算基督都已經來了 道德律都沒有停止 But the other two, namely the ceremonial and the judicial does cease after Christ coming 但是在禮儀還有形式法上面 因為基督已經來了, 這兩個功能就停止了 And in Calvin's understanding music belongs to the ceremonial law 在加爾文的理解當中 音樂是在禮儀法裡頭的 We don't offer sheep and lamb anymore to be burned as the burned offering before God because it belongs to the ceremonial law 我們不再獻上羊來作為祭物 那這個是禮儀法 And Calvin place music also in the same category meaning in the ceremonial law 所以他說音樂也是在這禮儀法裡頭的 Although in his letter writting in his commentary He changed his attitude also towards music It's more positive 當然他在他較晚期的著作當中 他也是把他對音樂的看法稍微作修正 變得比較正面了 But Calvin's louder voice is that instrumental music belongs to the ceremonial law Therefore after Christ coming it is abrogated 加爾文他還是比較多認為 所謂音樂性的敬拜是在禮儀法裡面 基督來了這就應該停止 It's a pitty to me 這個其實蠻慘的 Because once you stay this theological opinion talented musician and talented composers cannot work at the Reformed church anymore 如果這就是你的神學立場的話 那麼那些很有天賦的音樂家 就沒有辦法在教會服事了 Because they could only compose choral music without instruments 因為他們不能夠用樂器來做為敬拜 Talented composers like J.S. Bach(1685-1750) He is very much influenced by the Lutheran church tradition 像巴哈這樣子的音樂家 他可以有很多這些不同的作品 就是他比較從路德宗那裡 去領受對音樂的看法 I think this is the beauty of Reformed theology The beauty of Reformed spirit 我認為這是歸正精神當中很美的一個地方 We don't equalize Calvin's writting with the Bible It's not in the same level 我們並不把加爾文的思想 就當作跟聖經同等 這兩個是不同層次的 The principle of Sola scriptura Scripture only Meaning Calvin's thought should be revised 所謂的Sola scriptura 就是唯獨聖經 只有聖經是權威 加爾文並不能夠超越它 We are not following Calvin's teaching like the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox following the seven Ecumenical Councils 我們並不是像羅馬天主教或東正教一樣 只是把大公教會的決議當作是絕對的 It's of course not encouragement to boost ourself to be critical and to critisize Calvin arrogantly That's not my point of course 我也不是要大家有機會去批判加爾文一番 Calvin could write something wrong 加爾文當然可能寫出一些錯誤的訊息 So do you and so do I 你跟我都是如此 Perhaps more errors in our writting 甚至我們所寫的會錯得比他更多 We should humbly learn from the Reformers definitely 我們應該要在改教傳統下面謙卑下來 But if the theology is not in line with some biblical exegesis we should go back to the Bible 但是當這個神學並不是照著 聖經裡頭正確的解釋的話 我們就應當要回到聖經裡頭 I think in this context Luther's theology of music promise more than Calvin's theology of music 路德對音樂的解釋的內容比加爾文 所解釋的還要有更多的應許在裡頭 You know also in the strict Reformed or Calvin's tradition They only sing Psalms 在加爾文的傳統裡頭他們只唱詩篇 They dare not to sing hymns like this because this is not the Word of God 他們的這種傳統讓他們 不敢唱我們現在所唱的詩歌 因為這個並不是上帝的話 But I don't think it's our position We can use hymns 但是我認為這並不是我們所認為的 我們可以用詩歌 Hymns are like when we When the pastor preach, they try to interpret the Word of God 當一個牧師在傳道的時候 他們正在去解釋聖經 Pastors don't just read the Bible I mean just read it But also comment on the Bible 牧師當他講道的時候並不是只有讀經而已 他其實是在對聖經做一個解釋 So in the same manner hymns are also like commentary of Psalms 當然所謂的hymns 就是我們所唱的聖詩 也是一個對詩篇的解釋 You don't have to see hymns and psalms in contradiction 我們並不用把詩篇和聖詩做一個衝突 More questions? 有更多問題嗎? This is very complex What is your short definition of classical music Jazz, blues, Pop, rock country music I need like 7 seminars perhaps What lies behind theology? To the glory of God the most, which one you think the church should be spindled And how to treat others 請問您對古典音樂、流行樂、爵士樂 藍調、搖滾樂、美國鄉村音樂的定義 與其背後的神學是為了什麼？ 為了最能榮耀上帝 您認為教會應該以哪一個為主軸 以及如何看待其他 Billy牧師說他需要很多神學講座 There's a strong opinion You said basically someone wants to present the music that is according to everybody's own taste And that is a wrong statement 有很多的觀點可以來解釋這個 有的人認為每個人要用不同的音樂 來去呈現他們自己對音樂的口味就好了 就是他們對音樂的感覺就好了 當然這個是一個錯誤的觀點 For instance I am training classical music So when I serve in the church I should insist on classical music because I am trained in that kind of music 比如說我是受古典音樂訓練的 所以我在教會事奉的時候, 我就應當 要堅持我們只能夠用古典樂來事奉上帝 That is of course a wrong attitude 當然這是一個錯誤的態度 Despite this kind of personal bias we might want to check our own motivation 當然這有可能是我們個人的偏見 我們必須要去查驗我們自己 We should be lived simply on certain objectivity when we analyze music 我們也應當在去分析音樂的時候 了解到它當中有許多的客觀性在裡頭 Beauty is not in the eyes of the beholder It's not only in the It's outside there 所謂的情人眼裡並不一定出西施 西施很美因為她本來就很美 You are more funny than me You can perceive God's beauty subjectively of course 當然你可以很主觀的看到上帝的美 But God's beauty is in himself objective It does not depend on your subjective perception 但是上帝祂自己的美 是在祂裡頭是一個客觀的 並不在乎你怎麼看祂 This is the first step I mean this is very important for me because we live now in the postmodern culture They always accuse people for this personal bias Use that Jesus Christ is the Savior because you are Christian from chikdhood 這是很重要的第一步 因為這對我們來講很重要 因為我們現在活在 一個後現代主義的社會 很多人都會跟你說 你之所以信耶穌基督 就是因為你從小到大是被這樣戴起來的 We have to be careful and beware of this kind of subjective theory or relative theory 我們要對這樣一個很相對論的學說小心 I just give a simple illustration on the piano 我用鋼琴給大家一個很簡單的例子 I cannot discuss all Maybe I just mention rock and jazz or perhaps pops and then classical music 我可能只能回答搖滾樂 跟爵士樂還有古典樂 Not classical music is good also I mean there are also classical music that is not good 不是所有的古典樂都很好 也有很多古典樂很差的 I play like this This is also classical music actually You know only the last chord is good actually 其實這整首歌大概只有最後一小段是好的 You can classify this is classical music I mean contemporary classical music 你會認為這個好像是現代音樂 不知道這個其實是古典樂 With a very bad aspect behind One of the most important principle in the rock music 在搖滾樂當中有一個很重要的原則 is to reverse the order of upbeat and downbeat, downbeat and upbeat 這個其實在專注於所謂高調跟低調 (註: 倒反強拍downbeat與弱拍upbeat的順序) If we have 4/4 meter like Ok, A Mighty Fortress is our God is 4/4 1,2,3,4 So you have the accent actually on 1st and 3rd, right? Because "1",2,"3",4 That's the nature we have to sing 只有4/4拍的話 你如果只專注在第一跟第三拍 So again, "1", 2, "3", 4 So downbeat is on the 1 and on the 3 我們講1,2,3,4的時候 那個1是所謂的強拍 If you analyze the music they reverse the order What is stressed now is not the 1st and the 3rd but on the 2nd and the 4th So you have 1,"2",3,"4" 所以在講到搖滾樂的時候 它的強拍就不是在1和3 是在 1,"2",3,"4"這個2跟4拍 That's why also the use of the drums I mean modern drums used in the rock bands and so on 在所謂搖滾樂團裡面他們的鼓手 就是用這種方式來呈現 This instrument is used to strengthen this principle I mean the 2nd and the 4th should be more emphasized than the 1st and the 3rd 搖滾樂的這種鼓就是要為了剛剛講的 第二跟第四拍加重而設計的 The result is that you hear a syncopated music from begining until the end Syncopated music I'll give an example later 從開始到結束其實 你是一直在聽同樣的一個規律 就是它一直在第二跟第四拍加重 這樣子的一個規律 Let me play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star This is simple, also 4/4 我來彈滿天星 I give the emphasis on the 1st and 3rd "1",2,"3",4 Is it clear? 這個是在第一跟第三拍加重的 Now let me reverse the order I will give the emphasis on the 2nd and 4th 如果我把它加重在2跟4會怎麼樣 How would you compare? 跟第一個比起來你們覺得有什麼樣不同? Is it still natural? 你覺得2,4拍加重的還感到很自然嗎? Instead of You know it's not natural at all 其實後面那種就並不自然了 It againsts the body actually because your heart doesn't beat like that 這個跟你的生裡甚至都有衝突 因為你的心跳都不是這樣跳的 This is simple perhaps certain simplification There're other things that are more complex as well 這個例子告訴我們說事情並不是那個簡單 Basically you can Of course if you analyze rock music It's also gradually from the extream rock music until the rather softer and so on We cannot generalize everything of course 當然所謂的搖滾樂也有 重金屬搖滾樂也有所謂的輕搖滾樂 也不能說一概而論 Just like we cannot generalize Taiwanese, right? We cannot generalize because everybody is so different of course 當然就連台灣人也不全都是一樣 But somehow you still can make this general statement also without offending everybody 很多時候你還是可以用一個 籠統的方式去概括一些事情 You might argue that not every rock music is the same I agree also Not every rock music is the same 你也說不是所有的搖滾樂都一樣的 我也這麼同意 But there are general taste of rock music 但是在搖滾樂當中是有一個籠統的 一貫的表顯, 它的顯性基因 So that you can say this is rock music This is not Chopin This is no Mozart for sure 所以在看見這樣一個外在的表現之後 你就知道這個是搖滾樂 這個不是蕭邦, 這也不是莫札特 So this is what I'm going to It's about the melody, harmony rhythm, tempo, volume So I'm touching the rhythm now 所以我其實也是要跟大家講關於這個 旋律、和弦還有拍子等等 It's more biblical I dare to say like that This is more biblical to stress 1 and 3 instead of 2 and 4 And that is not a matter of taste 所以照著聖經的理解來講 去把第一跟第三拍放重是比 第二跟第四拍放重更合乎聖經的 這個並不是我們自己的口味的問題 It is something that is objectively true It's not according to my taste 有很多事情它就是客觀性的真實 它並不是因為我主觀性 對某件事情的口味如何而改變 We also cannot say that it is only socially constructed 我們也不會講說 它只不過是被社會架構所框架的 Because from our childhood we are also trained in that way that we should emphasize 1 and 3 No, this is not socially construction This is the theology of creation actually 也不是因為我們從小到大 都是被加重在1跟3拍所帶大的 所以我們就應該要1跟3拍 不, 這不是因為文化的關係 這個是照著聖經來講 是更合乎創造論的 Why we rather to stress the 1st and the 3rd when we have four and not the 2nd and the 4th? 為什麼我們要放1跟3 不是2跟4呢? Because it's more nature to stress the 1st and the 3rd The 1st is the first of the first group and the 3rd is the first of the second group You devide first I mean our brains work like that You have four and you devide it to two Two and two And then you make a stress on the first of the first group and the first of the second group 當然這個是比較合乎自然的 因為就我們腦部的思想也是這樣 如果你有四份東西的話 你把它切分成兩份 那第一份你加重 然後在第二個組別你再把它的第一給加重 所以我們腦袋的思維也是這樣進行的 You can try by yourself So it's much easier to sing faster with 1 and 3 emphasized instead of 2 and 4 emphasized 你自己也可以試試看 如果唱一跟三拍加重 和二跟四拍的加重是比較不一樣的 We can try together 甚至可以一起來試試看 It's simple, right? But if I change It's difficult, you know 你看唱1跟3拍加重的就是簡單 可以唱得比較快 唱2跟4拍加重的 你要把它唱快就很怪又很難 It's just not natural to stres the 2nd and the 4th 就是不自然 2跟4拍就是不自然 And we know the history of certain style of music or certain kind of music It's also The spirit that is not really in line with the Bible 我們也知道在音樂歷史上 有很多音樂的表現 它背後的精神是跟聖經相抵觸的 It's not just about exception but you want to reverse the order You want to reverse the order from the beginning until the end 它並不是說在 整個音樂當中會跳出一個例外 它是要音樂的從頭到尾都要 這樣去強調它, 2跟4 If you study classical music for instance composer like Beethoven Uses also a lot of syncopes quite a lot For me it's a little bit too much But for some, he says ok 如果你學習一些古典音樂家像貝多芬的話 你也會看到他跳出很多這種例外 對我來講可能他做得太多了 但有些人覺得還可以 But still, if you compare Beethoven with contemporary music You will find that the syncopated music will be corrected I mean in the course of music will be corrected 如果你去學習貝多芬的音樂的話 你還是會發現 他所跳出來的這種很例外的東西 它會在整個音樂的過程當中被矯正過來 So you'll have the emphasis on 2 and 4 only occasionally And then later on he will emphasize again 1 and 3 So going back to the nature way 所以一開始他有給你看見2跟4的加重 他到最後還是會用1跟3矯正過來 He can play like There is syncopation in the middle but after that corrected into 1 and 3 所以他在中間的確有跳脫性的2跟4 但到最後還是用1跟3矯正過來了 Again you cannot have the reversed order from the beginning until the end That is not possible 所以你不會看見他從頭到尾都是一樣 這個是不可能的事情 You know sometimes people clap in sycopated way also 有時候人拍手的時候也會有這樣一個模式 Let me give an example So this is the main beat this is the upbeat 下面那個是主要的拍子 另外一個是副拍 If I stop my foot I will have this 如果我把我的腳停下來 就只是這樣 Now what is upbeat becomes downbeat because you get confused Do you understand what I mean? 如果我把腳的拍子停住的話 這個副拍就變成主拍了 This is supposed to be upbeat 就很奇怪 有主拍跟副拍 Now let me stop my foot This becomes the main beat Do you understand? Because you get confused There is no main beat here 如果我們沒有把主拍呈現出來的話 剛才用手拍的那個副拍就變成了主拍 因為你開始混亂了 因為你聽不到主拍 So singing in this unnatural way 用這樣一個很不自然的方式去唱歌的話 It's not faithful to the 對聖經的創造論是很不忠誠的 Perhaps one more principle about the harmony It's the same 對和聲的一個觀念呢 The natural rule of the harmony When you have the disonant interval it should be resolved in consonant interval This is musical term I can give the example in piano If you have a disonant interval, you should resolve in consonant interval This is a dissonant interval 這個叫不協和音程 You know like car horn It should be in dissonant so the car should move away 就好像車子喇叭一樣 You don't have car horn for this way This is not a car horn This is car horn 這是一個不和諧的音樂 Car horn 不和諧的和弦 You have the dissonant sound 不和諧 You don't have this car horn Because it's in consonant So if you have a dissonance like this You should resolve it in consonance 你要幫它用和諧的和弦給解決過來 Resolved You can use dissonant chord and then after that you should resolve to consonant 你有不和諧的和弦出現沒有關係 但是你要用和諧的和弦把它解決過來 Ok, this is a dissonant interval And then resolve to consonant And you have a new dissonant Resolve again 所以一直有不和諧- 和諧 So it's dissonance- consonance dissonance- consonance You cannot have dissonance- dissonance dissonance and dissonance That's not possible That's against the rule of music Let me play 一直用不和諧是不可能的 這個跟自然律是有違背的 Let me a chain of dissonance Can you feel that it's not resolved? 你可以感覺到這一直都不和諧嗎 Or like this It's never resolved actually 你可以發現它完全沒有解決 So again, let me compare This is resolved 發現它有解決了 Now I play without resolution If I play jazz music will be like this 剛剛是沒有解決的 This is no resolution actually You go from dissonance to dissonance And then at the end Is it nice? 全部都沒有解決 It's no resolution here There is no resolution So biblically speaking music without resolution is like life without resolution 照聖經的觀點來看的話 一個音樂沒有和弦的解決 就好像人生沒有解答一樣 The story that we see from the Bible 我們從聖經裡的故事來看 In the beginning everything was good 在起初凡事都是好的 And then sin enters the world 罪進入了這世界 Christ came to the world 基督來了 and give this redemption 所以祂就救贖了這個世界 And that is the scope of redemption 這個就是在救贖當中我們所有的盼望 This theology should be reflected in musical structure as well Not only in musical text but in musical structure 我們這樣子的一個神學 應當要在我們音樂的架構當中呈現出來 並不只是在音樂的文字 Many music actually I mean almost like taken for granted But it's built upon this principle This biblical principle There is dialogues. There is tone There is a goal. There is an end 所以很多的音樂其實都沒有 對這樣一個神學架構存著感恩的心 大家都覺得是很正常 其實它當中是有起初有結束 是有一個目的的 Like this You're expecting the next line 就好像祢信實何廣大 你對它當中下一句是有期待的 And that comes to the last resolution which is the last note 直到最後一個音符你都對它可以有所期待 I can explain more detail tomorrow but now it's enough to answer like this 明天我可以再跟大家解釋更多更詳盡 You can compare with the musical that is highly influenced by the reincarnation theology 很多的音樂你都可以發現 它是跟輪迴這種觀念思想是有關的 If I sing Great is Thy faithfulness At the certain fulfillment, right? I mean you have the stop there This is not full stop It is a comma but you have a rest here That's a dialouge 唱這首歌的時候你可以有開始有結束 雖然唱到這一點並不是完全的結束 可是你至少知道它有一個逗號 雖然不是句號 Other music sounds like this 其他音樂聽起來是這樣的 The idea of returning no progression 你看這樣子的音樂 不是從一個進程式的方式去思考的 它是一直在輪迴一直在循環 You cannot reduce your observation by only saying Ok, it's only according to your taste It's good for me What is for me good for you unfortunately not good What is good for you unfortunately for me not good That is not enough to discuss music that way 所以你不能用這樣的思考方式說 這東西對我好, 對你來講不好 那就是對我好就好, 對你不好沒有關係 對我好就好...就一直這樣子循環 不能這樣子去討論音樂 We can objectively observe music Objectively 我們必須要很客觀地去看待音樂 並不只是照我自己個人的喜好而已 So again, many Western music not all of course But many Western music is built upon this biblical principle There is a certain There is a goal at the end and you have to reach that goal 很多西方的音樂都是有一個目的性 有一個終極性 你必須要達到這個終極的目的 Yes, we have problems We have dissonance And to use dissonance is realistic like our life But there should be redemption as well That's what we believe 所以在我們的生命當中我們當然有問題 所以就是有不和協音 但是我們會去發現它當中的 解決方案就是什麼 就是救贖, 就是協和音 And not music with direction that's chain of You know dissonance from dissonance to dissonance 所以也不是只是一個不協和音再來到 不協和音, 再一直來到不協和音下去 What we read from the Bible is from creation, for redemption and then consonation Not from fall to fall another fall That's not what we read in the Bible 所以我們從聖經裡頭了解到 是有創造但是有墮落 又有救贖又有成全 這並不是從創造到墮落 再墮落一直到無止盡 Again, if we want to analyze the structure I agree with you fully I mean in your question We should see definitely what is behind the musical structure What lies behind theology you write here So the theology behind this structure What is the philosophy behind the structure I agree fully with your question 我很同意你的觀點就是說 我們看音樂要看其背後的神學到底是什麼 就是在這個架構背後要表現的是什麼 我很同意 Is that a biblical Christian structure or is it not biblical structure 我們要看這個到底是合乎聖經的架構 還是不合乎聖經的架構 Thank you for your attention 謝謝你們